Login Join IOPS


  • Written by:
  • Published on:
  • Categories:
  • Comments:
  • Share:

"One of the very first requirements for a man who is fit to handle pig iron as a regular occupation is that he shall be so stupid and so phlegmatic that he more nearly resembles in his mental make-up the ox than any other type. The man who is mentally alert and intelligent is for this very reason entirely unsuited to what would, for him, be the grinding monotony of work of this character. Therefore the workman who is best suited to handling pig iron is unable to understand the real science of doing this class of work."

– Frederick Taylor

While working for Midvale Steel Company, Taylor needed to find ways to make workers operate faster and better. In his experiment with pig iron he decided to research whether it was possible to make them move 47 tons of pig iron instead of 12 ½ tons. It was, as it later turned out.

So, what did Taylor do?

• First of all, he selected a certain amount of physically fit, enduring men who had strength enough to work more. In fact, he found out that only about 12,5% of men already employed were really fit to work in the steel industry.

• Second of all, he ordered these men to follow instructions of their supervisors precisely, no matter how strange they could have seemed – have short rest during the day, sit down for a while, distract from work, etc. (at that times workers could hardly take frequent breaks or go for a stroll so these orders seemed really weird to them).

• Next, Taylor divided the work into several operations and tracked exact time needed to perform them. Average rates for the whole industry were thus defined and workers wishing to keep their jobs were obliged to follow them.

• Also, Taylor found out that if the workers were left to decide how they could organize their work on their own they failed to perform better. On the contrary, if supervisors kept an eye on the work / rest ratio laborers could lift 47 tons a day without tiring. Such system proved that what was previously done by 500 workers could instead be done by 140.

“The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge of the wants or feelings of the day laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe; when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of the landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability."

– James Madison

"To be fair, Madison was precapitalist and his "more capable set of men" were supposed to be "enlightened statesmen" and "benevolent philosophers," not investors and corporate executives trying to maximize their own wealth regardless of the effect that has on other people. When Alexander Hamilton and his followers began to turn the US into a capitalist state, Madison was pretty appalled. In my opinion, he’d be an anticapitalist if he were alive today — as would Jefferson and Adam Smith."

– Noam Chomsky

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

 We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society." 

– Edward Bernays

Bruce Wayne - age 8 : [riding his father's monorail]  Did you build this train, Dad?

Thomas Wayne : Gotham's been good to our family, but the city's been suffering. People less fortunate than us have been enduring very hard times. So we built a new, cheap, public transportation system to unite the city. And at the center... Wayne Tower.

[We see the building in the skyline from the window] 

Bruce Wayne - age 8 : Is that where you work?

Thomas Wayne : No, I work at the hospital. I leave the running of our company to much better men.

Bruce Wayne - age 8 : Better?

Thomas Wayne : Well... more interested men.

Discussion 100 Comments

  • Alex of... 25th Jan 2019

  • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

    Leaders are ubiquitous. All over. People are used to them...free improvisation is free association music, FAM for short. It’s when you make shit up on the spot with others. It’s when even musical convention is eschewed or neither here nor there, usable or not...or rendered obsolete...where expert craftsmanship, usually defined by reference to convention, carries far less weight or importance, like tonality...where people have to play together with a tolerance of one another’s musical dispositions and fetishes.

    It’s a music that tugs left, right, up, down, across, at times moving in directions you don’t want to go. Players pull and push, prod and prick, tease and tear at the music, sometimes shitting on it, sabotaging it, laughing at it...short, long, brief, sweet, sour, epic, mundane and banal...

    Yep, your right, your dog could have done that...but she never did, did she, or does, does she...nor does or did your six year old child...but if your dog, or six year old child, possesses some rare musical penchant beyond that of most canines and six year olds, and perhaps for the bizarre and spontaneous sonic sculptures, send them down to the rehearsal studio for a play with us...


  • Alex of... 26th Jan 2019

    @Dash (or openly)


    from your statement "People are used to them (leaders)," i might surmise that you object to leadership.. it's just a learned dependence. and then, in place of that, there is "free improvisation" where "you make shit up on the spot with others."

    the "tug" description sounds like a jam session. perhaps that means you object to "crafting" a song.. there is instead a no rules gathering of in-the-moment ideas push-pulling about, that results in spontaneous sculptures.

    do you object to leadership? do you object to rules? do you object to goals?

    do you see there being two basic models.. the leadership model and the improv model?

  • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

    No objection to leadership per se. In some settings Imprefer the back seat.
    No objection to rules per se. In some settings rules are necessary.
    No objection to goals per se. In some ways they are needed for guidance.
    No objection to crafting a song. I do and have done it.
    No objection to crafting a piece of music. I do and have done it.

    However free improvisation is NOT a jam session or jamming. Misconception. The mindset is very different. Jam sessions or jamming are often crafting sessions, or woodshedding type things. Indulgences usually around specified rhythmic and harmonic conventions or ones that kind of materialise or mirror or reflect performance goals, styles or actual songs or pieces of music...perhaps the solo section. But jamming usually means unworked or uncrafted with a view perhaps to do so with whatever shows up or it’s a session in which players can stretch out in ways they may not in performance or on record...build up chops, try things out, sketches, ideas, having a good time...etc..

    Free improvising is always done with the view that when you start, that is it...that is the performance, whether someone else is there to hear it or not and even if that first sound freaked you out!! If you are recording what you playing it IS the thing...no going back...no crafting it afterwards...no “fixing” shit because there is no fixing or nothing to fix...if you do craft the thing somehow later, only if you recorded it and can listen to it again, thereby using the whole or bits to build some new piece, a worked piece, or because you have an amazing memory, then you are not free improvising anymore. You can only free improvise when you do it....

    When you collapse the wave function and bring a sound into existence from infinite possibility, much like language, whether it be a conventional stopped or fretted note, say on guitar, or one born of a whack from a cheap metal meat tenderiser you bought from the supermarket, probably made by some ecological unsound company using unsound ecological practice, then that is it. If you stopped after that one sound, that would be the piece. You then pack up and go get a cup of tea. If you recorded it, you could release it or publish it somehow, even charge for its use...but that’s the piece, a short one sound piece with some silence before it and after it...cool.

  • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

    The desire for myself to pursue such practice is rooted in a complex history...very complex...psychologically/emotionally complex...many of my friends who love to practice the same thing have similar attitudes and came to it from equally complex backgrounds...most of them however continue to practice conventional music and love it as well...there is very little chance or no way at all to make a living playing free improvised music, particularly in australia unless you are prepared to live a very very frugal and hardship life...although “hardish” May not be how they view their life...it could be the greatest.

    I recently received an email from Eugene Chadbourne, non musically related, who wrote a book you can only get from his website called Dreamory. About 1000 pages of extremely small print with no index and a contents page the merely says, Chapter one, Chapter two, Chapter three etc....when you read it it is a mixture of dreamlike scenarios based on actual dreams, it seems, that morph into childhood memories and life/musical experiences from a young age on...musicians names such as I can detect, like a John Zorn, who he played with very early on, or Derek Bailey, have been changed...for instance Bailey is a women...don’t Know why...there was a scene I read, skipping ahead, decscribing an experience touring australia...he described a local muso who I concluded could be no other than the head of the college of arts jazz/improv school I attended...

    Eugene has managed to get to 65yrs as a professional player who effortlessly shifts between conventional musical form, or the song, and free improvising...America affords him vast opportunity to pursue his “craft” and he, early on, made that decision to pursue life on the road, the constant hard road...wandering minstrel...I emailed him once about a section in his book that described a composition he wrote that I thought was extremely funny and one of wildest ideas for a piece I had come across and quizzed him as to whether it was a made up scenario or actual...he got back to me quite quickly...I was reading in the backyard and his reply arrived within the hour...he explained it was indeed real and the pieces’ origins...he then told me it was very cold as he was in Germany and trying to wake the drummer because they had to leave to catch a plain in about ten minutes...next time I emailed him he was in an airport waiting for a flight...Eugene is not solely a free improvising musician, but Derek Bailey was pretty much, exclusively, for forty or so years. His book, Improvisation: It’s Nature and Practice in Music is worth a read. As is Ben Watson’s bio. Ben knew him well enough for Derek to agree to him as his biographer.


    Derek Bailey improvises a song...words crafted...guitar accompaniment by himself and on the spot...hilarious

    • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

      Not hardship life, but hardish life...

  • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

    Ned Collette, who now lives in Berlin is a singer/songwriter trying to etch out a professional living...he has been for some years now...I taught him when he was at school...he went to the college of the arts...has a literary penchant as well...a writing one...he played and still plays a lot of improvised music including free stuff. Now we are just good friends who catch up, when he’s back in town. He told me that Melbourne puts Europe to shame musically, scene wise and what’s available to hear. Some of my closer friends are old students...even one who I taught when he was eleven and twelve who I made cry one lesson. After doing so I said if he felt like it he could kick me in the shins...he stood up and did so and a smile crept up on his face...now he comes round and we have beers and chat about music...he’s in his thirties...

    Music is the best.



    One day I recieved something in the post. A CD. I opened it and there was a CD with a picture of Ned on the cover...Jokes and Trials...I think his first solo one, perhaps second...I opened it and saw a note inside. It said that this, the CD, was my fault. I had loaned, actual given, Ned a book by Leonard Cohen which I had never read, which he said destroyed him. Still not sure exactly what he meant by that...must ask him some day...Ned is good mates with Gareth Liddiard, lead singer and song writer for The Drones, who wrote two of my favourite songs, Shark Fin Blues and Oh My...both of which I have posted here...he’s is also a great writer and a guitar nutter, style wise and sonically....

  • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

    “I don’t know where it started. Something that I often found myself doing long before I started playing free music or almost any music was grabbing people to play. I remember getting together with a brass band cornet player in the army. There was no one else in the block at the time and I said to him ‘come in here and play’ and he said, ‘what shall I play then’, and I said, ‘play anything you like and I’ll drum with it’. He said, ‘I can’t do that’. And I said, ‘But you can - just blow a note - any note - and I’ll play this and you play that’. And so that was sort of the beginning. And when I teach now, it’s not that different.”





    • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

      The above is John Stevens talking. Drummer. Page 118 in the book, PDF.

    • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

      My Suitcase Sessions recordings, parts 1-3, may sound like the work of a wanker/nutter/untrained musician to some but it is in fact the culmination of over 40 yrs of playing that goddamn instrument called a guitar...from folk, pop, rock and Skip James blues shit, through to jazz, through to, well, that, the Suitcase Sessions...can imagine some renaming it the Shitcase Sessions! It ain’t stuff you can whistle on the way home on the tram! But I think far more revolutionary than anything Dylan has done...oh no, what have I said!

    • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

      Oh, with a lot of listening to the equally revolutionary, and far more so than Dylan, and most anyone else anyone could throw at me, Frank Zappa...a capital L liberal and small c capitalist, in business, perhaps. It’s his music that sits right inside the revolutionary spectrum and never left it, regardless of Frank’s own business practice and attitude to intellectual property.

  • Irie Zen 26th Jan 2019

    I do remember one thing.
    It took hours and hours but..
    By the time I was done with it,
    I was so involved, I didn't know what to think.
    I carried it around with me for days and days..
    Playing little games
    Like not looking at it for a whole day
    And then... looking at it.
    To see if I still liked it.
    I did.
    I repeat myself when under stress.
    I repeat myself when under stress.
    I repeat myself when under stress.
    I repeat myself when under stress.
    I repeat...
    The more I look at it,
    The more I like it.
    I do think it's good.
    The fact is..
    No matter how closely I study it,
    No matter how I take it apart,
    No matter how I break it down,
    It remains consistent.
    I wish you were here to see it.
    I like it.

    • Irie Zen 26th Jan 2019

    • Irie Zen 26th Jan 2019

      F.A.M. - Free Associations Mode

    • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

      Had Discipline...in fact still have it...on vinyl...Adrian Belew post Zappa and Talking Heads. Bill Bruford...

  • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

    Gareth Liddiard in Feb, 2018, making political observations that unfortunately sound so close to those often stumbled across if listening to those within the Intellectual - it’s just a joke name - Dark Web.

    This bullshit view of politics, that it’s gone all extreme and “crazy man” , that the Left is some loony bunch of nutters as bad as those on the starboard side. It’s like people doing little research themselves about the necessary real and hard work needed surrounding prospective societal change, except what they gather from a fucking shit load of tweets from whoever, because they’re just spending all this time on social media, and saying, ‘see, that’s what the left thinks. That’s what the left has become.’

    And they say it with such certainty, with such authority.


    "I think everything is so polarised now, it's not the time to be political. We should probably all just write love songs," he says.

    "The internet has phased out any moderate thought. We're just pushing two sides out further — the right and the left — and both sides think the other is completely wrong," he says.

    "If you want a utopia, and then half of the people don't want a utopia, eventually you're going to have to point a gun at the people who don't want a utopia and say — 'we're doing the utopia'.
    "There's nothing utopic about that."

    "If you were talking about a murderer and saying he was abused and he was a product of his environment, people would say 'oh, you're trying to forgive a murderer. You're trying to excuse his actions'," he says.
    "I'm not — I was simply talking about context.
    "You're not allowed to contextualise anything any more. It's crazy. It goes for left and right wing — they're both mad."

    His feeling is that the day of bands like Midnight Oil reaching broad cross-sections of the Australian public with their politics is long gone.
    "It seemed to make more sense doing that sort of thing then, whereas now being political — you're complaining about traffic, and you're sitting in a car. You're part of the traffic," he says.

    Listen to Rogan talk to Billy Gorgan from about 1hr 49 min and around 1.51 and ten sec, Rogan uses the word left to describe people who suppress ideas. Gorgan responds, that’s terrifying to me. Doesn’t question the premise, Rogan using this general term left...doesn’t ask him what the actual political positions, views of those allegedly suppressing ideas are, just agrees that it’s terrifying. We are all the same...fucking left robots.


    It’s fucking terrifying to me that these people, like Liddiard, Rogan, others, many on the Intellectual - it’s just a joke name - Dark Web, make these observations as if they are true, fact, unquestionable,...using the word Left in a way that DOES lump anyone who may have real legitimate good socialist, anti-capitalist argument and possible vision, in with the notions of idea suppression, or suppression of free speech...yep, the Soviet Union all over again, China, Korea...Gulad ignorant collectivist cultist identity all the same robots...if only Gorgan had said something like...

    “Oh, I don’t know, well actually I do know, that many people on the left, who I know, are actually not like that at all...they are very open to free speech...any kind, you know...they may hear something outrageous and then proceed to critique it quite well, while protecting the other persons right to make such outrageous remarks...just as you said one should Joe. So I don’t really agree that the word Left should be used here...perhaps you should have just said there are many people, of all kinds of persuasions, for all kinds of reasons, many of which we may be unaware, jump up and down to have certain shit suppressed or censored. That you isolated the Left, or use that word to describe those doing this kind of thing, is kinda wrong. I mean, even if you added the Right to your argument, that they do similar stuff, insinuating that sitting in the middle, moderately, pragmatically, as if those who do not belong to either side are the most reasonable, I think would be equally erroneous. I know plenty of people in the middle, who even jump from left to right, who are just as ridiculous, perhaps fickle, or just as unreasonable in their views. Possessing arguments and critiques not very reasonably thought through.

    To isolate the Left Joe, in this regard, is to provide an easy sound bite, a easily digestible morsel for those to disparage almost anyone on the left regardless of how sound their view, their critique of society or the economy may be, because they may just call themselves a leftie.

    Yeah, so I just wanted to say that so people don’t get the idea that I’m kind of automatically anti-leftist, just sitting comfortably and arrogantly on my little fence here, because some people, who may in fact be on the Left, want to censor something or suppress something...and even then I’d like to know specifically what it is we are talking about, the context, before I made or agreed with such a generalisation.

    Is that ok Joe, that I say that...because I don’t really want to hurt your feelings. I do dig your show.”

    But nup, just agree and get out of there...no unpacking to be done...the Left it appears are easy pickings and people like Joe Rogan, Liddiard and Gorgan quite obviously, occupy the reasonable ground...fuckers.

  • Alex of... 26th Jan 2019

    "Absorb what is useful, discard what is not." – Bruce Lee


    "All anarchists oppose institutional forms of hierarchy and the idea of power as something to wield over others. That does not, however, mean that anarchists oppose organization, structure, rules, accountability, or decentralized forms of governance."


    Anarchists are better dreamers than doers, and politics is the art of the possible. Although it may disappoint many on the left, a successful movement requires compromise, organization, and yes, even leadership, to actually get things done.

    • Boulder Dash 26th Jan 2019

      Sounds like something Gar Alperovitz would say!

    • Boulder Dash 27th Jan 2019

      That last one that is...or maybe David Harvey....

  • Alex of... 26th Jan 2019

    have we been jamming? and what does a post-powowian society look like? deepdive or clustergraph?

  • Boulder Dash 27th Jan 2019

    Life’s being not dead.

  • Irie Zen 27th Jan 2019

    ^^ 10001000Plateaus >> RRRhizomatic tagging system




    Coming soon: "The f000t* situation" by ScoutBeePedicurist#42

    ^^ Hungry Hungry Homer* >> Meso* hungy >> (S12E15)


    I PLANSOC // "We're sustainably maximizing quality of life for all human beings."


    I PLANSOC // "Our priorities are not just about solving some of the most dire needs or disparities the global population currently faces; It is also about planning our collective resources toward what was considered impossible."


  • Alex of... 27th Jan 2019

    semper gumby!

  • Alex of... 28th Jan 2019

    Crimethinc : Ready or Not

    Get in position: Build networks, resources, and skills that will be useful in those moments of possibility. Dedicate yourself to a long-term project that challenges some aspect of the power structure. Wherever you can, open up the fault lines between those who prefer the world the way it is and those who want something different. Don’t seek to concentrate power, but to diffuse it—a part of your potential is locked in everyone else, and you won’t be able to access it without them.

  • Boulder Dash 28th Jan 2019

    “The Best Way to Protest”

    “The best way to protest,” the deeply conservative former president and MSNBC-CNN hero Barack Obama told University of Illinois students last year, “is to vote. … When you vote,” Obama said, “you’ve got the power.”

    As people sometimes like to say to this day on Chicago’s Black South Side, which Obama pretended to be from: “Negro,please.” Like most of Obama’s fake eloquent utterances, his statement in Urbana was slimy, silver-tongued bullshit. We are allowed, yes, to vote, but mammon reigns nonetheless. As the mainstream political scientists Benjamin Page and Martin Gilens noted in their important 2017 study Democracy in America?, U.S. “government policy … reflects the wishes of those with money, not the wishes of the millions of ordinary citizens who turn out every two years to choose among the preapproved, money-vetted candidates for federal office.”

    Candidates like Obama, who blew up the public presidential campaign finance system with record-setting contributions from the likes of Goldman Sachs and Citigroup in 2008 – and who then went on to honor those contributions by governing in utmost accord with the commands of the nation’s unelected financial dictatorship.

    Contrary to the conspiracy addicts at the DNC, CNN, MSNBC, the CFR, the CIA, the New York Timesand the Washington Post, there was no “great American democracy” for Russian military intelligence to “undermine”in 2016. Insofar as Russia interfered, it was an intervention between two different oligarchies– theirs and “ours.”

    No, the “best way to protest” is, for starters at least, to protest. And the best way to protest is with actions that threaten capitalist profit and disrupt business and business-[rule-]-as-usual. “There’s a time,” as Mario Savio famously said in December of 1964 during Berkeley Free Speech Movement:

    “when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart that you can’t take part! You can’t even passively take part! And you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus — and you’ve got to make it stop! And you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it — that unless you’re free the machine will be prevented from working at all!…That doesn’t mean that you have to break anything. One thousand people sitting down some place, not letting anybody by, not [letting] anything happen, can stop any machine, including this machine! And it will stop!”

    Three years later, the great protester Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. rejected “progressive” pleas for him to run for president (as a Democrat, of course). The narcissistic presidential-electoral game held no interest to King. He called instead for “massive, active, nonviolent resistance to the evils of the modern system…The dispossessed of this nation – the poor, both White and Negro – live in a cruelly unjust society,” King said in a lecture broadcast into the United States by the Canadian national radio network in December of 1967. “They must organize a revolution against that injustice…There must,” King intoned, “be a force that interrupts [a classist and racist society’s] functioning at some key point…mass civil disobedience” to “dislocate the functioning of society.”

    There’s a very different and more potent kind of politics beneath and beyond our bourgeois masters’ carefully calibrated and constitutionally contained election cycle. Ordinary people “g[e]t the power” when they form militant grassroots movements and take collective and direct actions before, during, and after the election spectacles, whatever their outcomes.

    We can follow the dictates of MSDNC, CNN, Obama, Nancy “We’re Capitalist and That’s Just the Way it is” Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Tom Perez et al: get out of the streets and wait for your precious little moment in a voting booth for two minutes once every two or four years. Or we can follow the paths suggested by Savio, King, and those other great protesters who both preceded and followed them, including Tecumseh, Black Hawk, Sitting Bull, Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, Emma Goldman, Big Bill Haywood, the sit-down strikers, Herbert March, the Freedom Riders, the Selma marchers, Occupy, the Ferguson protesters, the Chicago and LA teachers, and the late radical historian Howard Zinn, who wrote the following about and against the “Election Madness” he saw “engulfing the entire society, including the left, in the Obama-crazed spring of 2008:

    “Would I support one candidate against another? Yes, for two minutes—the amount of time it takes to pull the lever down in the voting booth. … But before and after those two minutes, our time, our energy, should be spent in educating, agitating, organizing our fellow citizens in the workplace, in the neighborhood, in the schools. Our objective should be to build, painstakingly, patiently but energetically, a movement that, when it reaches a certain critical mass, would shake whoever is in the White House, in Congress, into changing national policy on matters of war and social justice. … Let’s remember that even when there is a ‘better’ candidate (yes, better Roosevelt than Hoover, better anyone than George Bush), that difference will not mean anything unless the power of the people asserts itself in ways that the occupant of the White House will find it dangerous to ignore.… Yes, two minutes. Before that, and after that, we should be taking direct actionagainst the obstacles to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

    That’s great advice, but we need to go further given what we know about capital’s cancerous compulsion to push the planet past the last tipping points of environmental catastrophe. Exercising workplace, marketplace, civic, and political bargaining from the bottom up is necessary but insufficient now. It’s not just about “shak[ing] whoever is the White House, in Congress.” At the current moment of ecological and authoritarian peril, it’s about dismantling (by any and all means necessary) the corporate and imperial state and system. We need to take it down from the bottom-up, from the top-down, and from the sides-in and all the way around. The reigning class rule system poses a grave existential threat to any and all hopes for a democratic and remotely decent future. Sorry to be so stark, but Istvan Meszaros was right: “It’s [eco-]socialism or barbarism if we’re lucky.”

    Help the adjunct history instructor Street keep writing at https://www.paulstreet.org/subscribe/


    1. The great prolonged sit-down strike (workplace occupation) that gave rise to the United Auto Workers (UAW-CIO) union in 1936 and 1937 is a classic example. Even during the Great Depression, in a time when mass unemployment undercut workers’ MBP, the mostly semiskilled and unskilled workers of General Motors’ Fisher Body plant in Flint, Michigan were able to win union recognition and a contract by demonstrating their capacity to disrupt the overall production process of their highly capital intensive corporate employer – the nation’s (and perhaps the world’s) largest manufacturing firm at the time The same basic power was exercised by such workers in numerous other industries across the nation during the mid- and late-1930s. The CIO packinghouse union, for example, rose largely on workers’ flexing of WBP on meatpacking plant’s strategic killing and cutting floors, located at the very front end of the “production” (really dis-assembly) process. When highly specialized but strategically placed knife workers on the killing floors stopped work, their work department went down. When the killing floors went down, whole meatpacking plants ground to a halt and the employers’ expensive raw material spoiled, at no small cost. Politics (the rise of a significantly pro-union New Deal state and Democratic Party by the middle 1930s) was significant as well, of course. Still, the elaborate collective bargaining systems that arose in the United States during the late 1930s and 1940s were dedicated among other things to the managerial containment of the workplace bargaining power flowing to workers (unskilled and semiskilled as well as skilled) under “modern” capitalist mass-production.

    Paul Street’s latest book is They Rule: The 1% v. Democracy (Paradigm, 2014)

  • Alex of... 29th Jan 2019

    sum lil snippits frum co-op doc i pulld n reordrd fo quikky bit

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      The "War Games" bit @ the end.. nice. XD

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      "EPIC" they'd say..

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      Anyone watching Jordan Peterson vids here? YT's algorithm givin' me all sorts of ridic shizzle here.. lol

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      CHARISMA ON COMMAND! One of the 12 rules?

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      MO WARRRGAMES: http://www.iopsociety.org/news/nato-aegis

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      "If you don't look good, we don't look good." Too sassy? XD -"The surfer's hair gotta be right."

    • Alex of... 29th Jan 2019

      that JP breakdown is actually pretty interesting. yet, like i mentioned briefly elsewhere, i've noticed him use a false equivalency, which sets up a strawman he can then present a false dichotomy for. though, i have no idea what his answers would be if i stopped him there and asked him to define some things.. that is, find mutual definitions first.

      i've "smash techniqued" i think to what i think are large assumptions, with the intent to bring it down to a starting point, not to overwhelm and win. though, it may not be the best approach. of course, nobody's perfect and i've made plenty of communication mistakes in my day.. and other shit!

      i've mentioned some past experiences, such as my tshirt design business, where i felt that my partners did not follow through, and some bottled up feelings came out way too late. but that don't mean i was perfect. we could have benefited a lot from a better grasp on process. but, i will share a handful of anecdotes from that which coincide with the "sassy games" vid. concrete examples as food for thought. i'll jot a couple notes down but prob not get to posting that till later tonight or tomorrow.

      ways to avoid global thermonuclear war.. the game that can only be won by not playing!

      "Now if my partners don't look good, Malik won't look good
      If Malik don't look good, then Quest won't look good
      If the Quest don't look good, then Queens won't look good
      But since the sounds are universal, New York won't look good"

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      Yeah.. the JP breakdown is good. The hidden persuaders.. Lots of good stuff above. I remixed our session.. WORK.. FFF#42! Frontpage NNN_EWS Here:

      FUN! Here: XD

    • Irie Zen 29th Jan 2019

      ^^ TONS OF PIG IRON.. COPY :: PASTE :: FORMAT :: FrontpageNNN_EWS 

      >> Dem partnRRRs look good, da jam looks good
      >> Damn jam looks good, dem quests looks good
      >> Damn quest looks good, damn G.O.A.T. looks good
      >> But since the F.U.N.K. is universal, damn jam so good

    • Alex of... 30th Jan 2019

      nice remix (elegant n fun layout work in general yo)

    • Boulder Dash 30th Jan 2019

      The JP breakdown isn’t worth much. It reads like shit I did at school...you know, you learn all those things about how to argue properly and reasonably but then notice NO ONE actually does it outside in the real world, not if you want a debate to be entertaining. Just get a bunch of comedians in....

      It’s not as if it’s a journo who’s really trying to pull Peterson’s views apart, she’s just trying ‘catch him out’, to create a stir of sorts...been advised by her ‘Big Daddy’ overlords...mainstream ratings, keep people sitting there for the adds...the whole things a game, Peterson’s selling books and the mainstream media are selling people sitting on couches to sponsors. I mean in some way it’s good for the ‘world as it is’ that Peterson looks good and that female journos look bad, huh? Big Daddy White Geezer Hegemonic Power Grid wins again. Mainstream media working away subtly doing the exact opposite than what it appears...or not so subtly. I mean perhaps the voiceover guy breaking down the argument works for some right wing conservative PR firm, or even the same boss the female journo does...they want her out!

      Beyond their specific areas of expertise, the Intellectual - it’s just a joke name - Dark Web folk are barely coherent in their commentary on the world...beyond their own fields, they are no more ‘intellectual’ than anyone else really. Let’s get the world arguing over Peterson’s twelve rules, his anti-PC and his personal and simplified generalised sometimes incoherent views of the Left...he’s an academic and writer he can comment on anything now, but for money and a better lifestyle...it’s now part of his job...

      These YT things are all over the fucking joint. After a while it’s like having too much gear...to many guitars...to many effects...it just becomes a mind fuck, a black hole...just chuck it all out and start bashing the guitar with a battery and see what comes out...or a stone or rock which is more ecological.

      It always amazes me...all this gear and shit that does all this amazing stuff and everyone sounds the fucking same anyways...use gets all sheared down to song writing craft and making a splash in the commercial world...selling...making a big hit...just need one...song confused with music yet again...$$$...

      ’You can’t do that! No one will listen to that. You don’t do that with that, that’s for this and only this. You need this, not that. This will get you that. Sub bass. Sub sub sub bass. The drop is so cliché. Yeah, that’s that 80s sound. Oh, that’s that 90s sound. You can’t turn them all on, that’s just juvenile. What are you doing? That’s way too loud. There’s no form. That’s way too long. No one will listen to that. I don’t know where to place it. What genre is that? That’s just not hip dude.’

      Fucking hell.

    • Boulder Dash 30th Jan 2019

      Analyse this!


    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019

      whatev.. Jordan OWNED that crazy fuckin libtard

    • Boulder Dash 31st Jan 2019

      All smoke and mirrors.

    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019

      totally, and JP saw right thru it

    • Boulder Dash 31st Jan 2019

      They were all doing their job.

    • Boulder Dash 31st Jan 2019


    • Boulder Dash 31st Jan 2019


    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019

      JP holds the courage to fight the WALMARXist agenda =D

    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019


    • Dave Jones 2nd Feb 2019

      Like it. Sassy is super articulate. All good points.

  • Alex of... 30th Jan 2019


    brief background on the formation of a partnership business, the MAZUI FOUNDATION

    a tale of three friends: EODO, KDOZER, and MAVERICK (me)

    EODO was a long-time friend of mine, experienced in screenprinting and graphic design. while working for a printshop, he had expressed his boredom and loathing with the "custom work" side of screenprinting, with one particular large shop client as a repeated example, which just uses stock images to throw some event name on or whatever.. cookie cutter shit. really, his job was just to prep and confirm files for print, no creative side. now and then he would print off one or two shirts of something of his own for fun. he expressed an interest in doing some kind of more creative work with printing, but didn't really know where to start.

    KDOZER was his brother and my roommate. no design or business background. good mason and soccer player. told me that the problem with EODO and me.. "you guys" don't "just do it".. as in, don't make it too complex, just get started.

    MVRK me, i was working as a bartender and doing some "karate" at the time, and invited them both to sit down and talk about putting together a business/entity we could express ourselves through and make some money at, starting with tshirt design, but perhaps to fund other creative work as well. brand ourselves, wutang this shit. all agreed and i affixed the metal letters i had purchased, spelling MAZUI FOUNDATION, to the front of the dilapidated house KDOS and me be rentin.

    in the very end, it was just EODO and MVRK at a point EO was putting together all kinds of info and ideas on saving money in a custom shop to get himself on board with the shop client he cited as example of what he hated the most about the screenprinting business. KDOZER had been the least "just do it" member, with the most vague and overly-complex ideas contributed over time.

    what happened??... (back later)

    • Alex of... 30th Jan 2019

      i have a thousand stories from that experience, so i'm trying to pick just a handful of things that illustrate a point or two. it's not like someone is asking me a specific question, and i could always talk more. generally, i'd say it's relevant to some of the experiences i've had or have seen with other collaborations as well. to note, my friends and i started that biz as equal partners and peers. no one was "in charge".

      at that founding meeting, i had talked about "too much talk," similar to what seemed to be KDO's point.. friends yapping about ideas on a porch sometimes over beers.. "wouldn't it be cool if we.." thoughts that tend to move quickly to imagining shit way outside our current scope. that is, yes it WOULD be cool, but we need some smaller tangible steps to build on. from dreamers to doers.

    • Alex of... 30th Jan 2019

      example of one of the ideas KDO presented, after we had some shirt sales going, which was not a lot yet, but regular (and almost entirely my design work, which was not actually how i wanted that to be): he had looked into a large space he thought we should pursue a loan for. actually, the space was previously NAF Studios ( https://www.thestranger.com/seattle/obits/Content?oid=12333 ). there, he thought, we could set up our own screenprinting shop to do both our shit and custom work, throw live-music shows, put up a skate ramp and other shit, and live at.

      i expressed my doubt that a bank would give us a loan (even a much smaller one), and also said i probably wouldn't be that comfortable taking that kind of loan anyways, for that large of a pursuit without first having more experience in just the tshirt stuff (which i thought was our general agreement). this pissed him off as an example of how i don't care about his ideas and am only willing to do what i want to do. but, it's not like he had outlined one bit of any of this. i mean, i could suggest we start full line of clothing and a brewery, but these are big endeavors which cost a lot of money, and require some organization.

      we did go visit the space, and yes, i think his idea WOULD be cool. i just did not think we were ready for that yet, but encouraged him to outline some shit and said i'd be happy to go sit down with someone at the bank with him if he took the lead. it still resulted in a kind of "whatever" eye-roll n head-shake.

      i didn't really understand. it made me feel like he thought that just coming up with that idea was "the work" and then maybe i was supposed to fill in the details or something. it's not like it required some specific approval from me to explore further. he may, at that point, have seen me as "the leader". but just because i had led on some things already did not mean i was in charge, or saw myself that way. i was just asking that he take "ownership" of his ideas and lead on them. as in, outline what you think are the steps and we can see where it goes. don't just take my word for it, let's go to the bank. what are you looking for, a million bucks?

      and there were also things we had started that required some attention, too. most of which, i felt i was doing the bulk of the work on.


    • Alex of... 30th Jan 2019

      EODO and the rodeo! fuck, so many damn things i could say about the track we circled around and round. when we were starting, i figured he would be the guy leading design. he had stacks of sketch pads and a ton of graphic software experience. the name MAZUI FOUNDATION (MF) actually went back to us promoting a bit of live music with another friend of ours. one of the one-offs he had printed at the screenshop was just an MF shirt in a futuristic font. it's part of what inspired me to want to start a business. i would wear that shirt at the deli i worked at (before bartending era) and get comments on it all the time. the font was kind of abstract, so two letters separated on a polo shirt was not always immediately recognizable for what they were, sometimes mistaken as hebrew or something. bright yellow on red. it looked cool and people liked it. he had also printed a couple things from his sketch pads.. also cool i thought.

      we had also talked about a fictitious Mr Mazui, like some kind of sensei on a remote island that we took our mission orders from. i initially thought we could expand on this fictitious comic-book-like world, and just brand MF. brand ourselves, develop ourselves as characters, and use the story for some continuity to express whatever.

      he loaned me his sketch pads and i marked numerous things i thought would make cool shirts. he gave me a reason why he would not want to use that particular sketch for that, for each one. "ok, what DO you want to print?"

      ok, there's a bit much to write about on all the discussions, but EODO did not seem to want to commit to using anything he had created. he had printed a shirt for KDO previously out of request that just said holy fucking shit! it looked cool and i liked it. i paid personally to have some created with a mazui logo to jumpstart things.. take it through a minimal process that has group-wide inclusion.

      i wore it to the bar i worked at and people asked me about it. i started keeping some in my backpack, since people were offering me money when i said where it came from. ok, movement!

      but, problems remained when it came to design talk. and it didn't help to suggest designs to a designer, or at least that designer. so, i decided to start learning some graphic software. at least i could do some basic layouts, i figured, as a way to communicate some ideas in my own head. couple months in, i had put together a bunch of ideas and shared them. the group liked them. EODO redesigned one of them (way better than mine looked!)– skull with fork and knife crossed that read "Kill Your Customer" and "Servus Scandali"–(quarrelsome servant). i shared a printout of some of my shit with some folks at work. that led to an offer to put some of them in a store, which became a reason to print some shit and put up a website. the KYC shirt was quite popular with the local service industry workers.

      ok, i knew full well that the designs going up on our website were my flavor, which was partly influenced by an expanding political awareness in the post-911 era. they were never meant to define all future activity. yet, i think it made others feel like their shit wouldn't fit. yet, i constantly asked for more design work on the table and wanted to create different areas for different kinds of expression on the website. and fuck with weird storylines, or DIY tutorials. some of this shit was ideas from the rest of the group that i was now pushing people on. things i agreed with. things we ALL agreed with.

      and yet, in the endtimes, i was told that our designs were just all MY shit. EODO told me he didn't really feel like he had much stake in it. ya, i KNOW! we had discussions and shared folders available. those folders contained my ideas and nothing else. no, EO didn't have much ownership in any of it because he wouldn't put anything on the table. yet, he was plenty capable.. in many ways more capable than me. i had no idea what he even wanted to do, other than a couple things he said he wanted to do but never did. was it my fault? i still feel like it was. i can identify what i didn't see happening, but i still blame me, just like they did. i should have been able to solve it.

      here's a weird little project EO n me did for a benefit. uses photographic elements rather than hand-drawn like some other posters we did. there was a very short timeline. i did an initial layout. EO flipped out on me about using photos instead of hand-drawn.. as in NOT the way that medium is supposed to BE! but, it was a project he had agreed to, said he wanted to do. i asked him if he was going to have time to hand draw something else. he said... well, no. he made the finished design. but, so much drama first.

      it raised money.. they did not give us credit in this piece. i also have a photo that shows the rest of his legs with all the gear holding them together, which was nicely cropped. but, who'd have thought some of my work would be displayed in Stars N Stripes, eh?



    • Alex of... 30th Jan 2019

      as much as i was not able to solve what may have had solutions.. i still come back to that "ownership" concept, just as mentioned by the Electric Embers dudes in the coop video i remixed. we had a general agreement on a direction. there was plenty of shit that needed owning. i found myself owning more and more.. more than i wanted to. then it seems i'm seen as the OWNER! and "they" are my staff who get pissed at me when their dreams aren't coming true. well, own your fucking dream! (he lashed back)

      some shit about process. we had business meetings. i would ask if everyone could write down the things they believe need doing to bring with them. write some notes on what y'all think our goals should be in the next while. what ya want to focus on. everyone would agree, and i would be the only one who showed up with notes. oh, uptight old maverick and his fucking notes.. just nod, but fuck him. lol, he thinks he's our fuckin boss. tell ME to bring notes. i'll just not bring notes then complain about his.

      i also attempted an idea that everyone could log their weekly work. quick notes on what you spent time on and approximate amount of time. i started to wonder.. cuz at times, my time spent was like a full-time job. how much time are others spending? any? i don't see a lot of things happening.. can we set a minimum dedication to keep us on track?

      i can give numerous examples where someone says, oh ya, i'll handle that. then, after asking about it a few times, they send me a link or something to some information about that thing. ok, but..? sure, i can look up shit.. but that's not handling it. that's sending me some basic info so maybe i will handle it.. like.. well, that's what you wanted right? ..me? what about we?

      see, this is why i'm wary of engaging in project work at this point with others without establishing some guidelines first. i have too many experiences that lacked process or definition of roles and tasking. experiences where i assumed that would be a focus, but then when brought up seemed to cause resentment, like i was being authoritative. i find myself overworked, don't ask for help, and burn out.

      in part, i think people are so used to hierarchy, they either recreate it, or try to break that mold by avoiding structure altogether.

      i'll pause there.

    • Boulder Dash 30th Jan 2019

      “some shit about process. we had business meetings. i would ask if everyone could write down the things they believe need doing to bring with them. write some notes on what y'all think our goals should be in the next while. what ya want to focus on. everyone would agree, and i would be the only one who showed up with notes. oh, uptight old maverick and his fucking notes.. just nod, but fuck him. lol, he thinks he's our fuckin boss. tell ME to bring notes. i'll just not bring notes then complain about his.”

      My favourite paragraph so far.

    • Dave Jones 2nd Feb 2019

      Hey these people don't smoke a lot of weed do they? Always found that to be a problem with getting shit done.

    • Boulder Dash 30th Jan 2019

      Pity Jason’s not hereto relate his experiences but perhaps it could cause issues if others are reading it...don’t know. I think you could be right about people being used to hierarchy, recreating it or having no structure...doing what you were suggesting sounds like actual work...what notes? Seriously, you want me to bring in notes? Fuck that...straight from the top for me man...no notes necessary...I roll how I roll dude, not how you want me to roll!

    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019

      we all role how we role, but there has to be some practical agreements to work together. KDO was like.. "there's lots of ways to do things, not just your way or the way they say your supposed to". which is fine but.. i don't use a turn signal so i won't get a ticket. some shit "they" do actually makes sense. or, he took issue with needing to check email, with preference to talk verbally. but, the email thing is just a tool, and there's links i need to send or shit that's easier to write down. i could print it out and stamp it. is it really an issue?

      i make fun of KDO on that shit, but EO was something different. some of it was some kind of artistic conflict and fragility. put it this way, it's ok if he just enjoys making one-offs for moments or drawing shit for himself, but doesn't like replicated art. it was hard to understand where his lines were, like what he might see as commercialization. thing is.. i love his weird art style, but it's not like it's emotional type stuff. just sayin. i pick out some pimp-looking bugs he drew.. is there a real reason why you won't put this or anything in your sketchpad on something? what are we doing? there always seems to be a vague obstacle? but that's something he needs to define then. and i guess did maybe, sort of.

      me, i made designs of shit i wanted to wear. and i enjoyed that people resonated with the messages and wanted to wear that shit too. since i had some shit in a local store, i remember the first time seeing someone on the street i didn't know, wearing one of my designs. i started laughing. i was stoked.. empowered by my fans! or, building an army..

      i really wanted to work with EO. it's crazy to me he chased after that bullshit cookie-cutter outfit, rather than use his creative talents. it's crazy he couldn't bring his job-job professionalism into MF. and we worked together at the screenshop for awhile too.. i was now doing art prep/separations there, so i know the difference. working with him was either fun or drama. i guess i'd prefer fun with some lively disagreements that spring off into even better ideas.

      and i wouldn't be the note guy if MFers were just conceiving shit and bringing it. preferably working with what we got or can get. so much to ask we be fun and engaged to create shit?

      voltron? 4:42

    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019

      ya know, i tried numerous conversations with EO about roles, too. i tried to understand if he would prefer it if i DO make outlines based on our discussions that i could offer up for refinement to a point it's agreeable. and what decisions are ok for me to make when i'm talking to others without him? ..so that it will avoid conflict or drama. that kind of crap. that's not placing me "in charge".. it's defining some process that allows what might be our personal strengths to become greater than the sum of the parts.

      "a part of your potential is locked in everyone else"

      the poster printing was something he had taken an interest with, which was less my interest, but that was fine as i could see various potentials from it, and pleased to see him engaged. that all started with a contact of mine doing promotional shit in the music industry. there's a genre for artistic screenprinted band posters as collector pieces. after doing a few, there was an oportunity to grab a table at "FLATSTOCK" where these art-businesses sell some of that shit.

      of course, EO did not want to want to do it.. we didn't have enough stuff, nothing was good enough, he doesn't like doing it that way. finally got him to commit, and he ended up being super happy with it all, and was all fired up for just a bit, then back to drama and vagueness.

      part of that, i suggested, since we don't have as much crap as others, i thought we could print up some non-band stuff, bring some old shirts to liquidate for cheap. we had one design from a rare fun day that had two rabbits pointing guns at each other, which had led me to some ideas about doing design work around a dystopian future of good vs evil, as rabbits vs robots. so, he did a poster design based on that. that's the one that sold the most. we only had 20 of em, sold out. costs 2-3 bucks in raw material, sold at 20.

      is that hurting our ethics? or better to go work for some bullshit company?

      my goal was to make a living off some creative shit. from there, we can start using that for some social shit too. i'd done some pretty extensive research into sweatshops, fair trade, organics.. had some info outlined on our website, and was purchasing from more ethical sources where it exists.

      i DID actually want to get to a point of a clothing line. i would have been aiming to set up a cooperative screenshop that prints for us, and the general market. cooperative clothing production, the same. but, keep our creative entity separate. i would be all for KDO's punk-hop-landia HQ at old NAF. but, we have to keep taking steps to get there. and one thing i always noticed, everytime we took a step, new doors became available. just too much energy being wasted trying to get someone to walk through one and find out what's on the other side. OWNERS WANTED.

      i think about this also in relation to some of what i might call anarcho-purity. can't go forward unless everything's perfectly matching utopia right now. sorry, but the market exists right now, and it takes money to move. there's legal entities and banks that need to be used to live in the real world. there's ways to fund shit that won't be everything ya always dreamed about. that's an obstacle from doing anything? i don't accept that. makes no cents.

    • Alex of... 31st Jan 2019

      bit misleading lol...

    • Boulder Dash 31st Jan 2019

      Gotta smash the state first...then get rid of money and the whole idea of working for it...

    • Dave Jones 2nd Feb 2019

      my daughter is one of the dancers in a Tech9 video. Pretty stupid really. I sympathize with the trouble and drama and head games of working with other humans. They are a tough species to figure out.

    • Alex of... 3rd Feb 2019

      the bands on that tour aren't really my thing.. but that's cool.. dance away! HED PE was the main driver on that end. the Stripes article mentions using profits for laptops n dvds, but from what i understood, staff was paying out of pocket for a lot of little things. i'm not exactly Mr "support the troops!" guy, but ya know, getting your legs blown off early in life (especially).. sucks. i had a shirt up on the site with a map graphic of USA.. said "regime change". hey.. at MF, we pick up the pieces.

      reminds me.. a few shirt designs i had, that never got printed. WMD was another phrase being used a lot. i had an image of a brick.. said Weapon of Mass Construction

    • Boulder Dash 4th Feb 2019

      Because people want to enjoy themselves more, not spend most or all their time at work. One of the things about starting coops and such is the amount of time it takes and then the effort and focus to maintain it...IT becomes one’s life just like flipping burgers if that’s all you can get... not everyone involving themselves in new work practice or other lifestyles is as motivated as others are. Among them are those who love it and are engaged and others who do it because it’s progressive and a move toward change but are perhaps more reluctant to make it their sole purpose...”fuck man, Inwant to practice my guitar more and do more music...I understand the thecrevolutionary importance of this all stuff and that’s why I am involved but somethings missing here...there are other conversations to be had, like reducing the working week yet maintaining access to the social pie, that if not embraced can get forgotten and neglected...like with what are we to replace markets with because they impact on my access to the social pie, along with notions that managers should get paid more than me because I just sweep the floor...I’m a little sick of this notion that if one belongs to a coop or owns part of the business, work becomes a place to be, enjoyable and my life is immeasurably better. In some ways it is, but in others there’s something just the fucking same about my life in that I’m just fucking working all the time not necessarily doing shit I enjoy...but because it’s kind of connected to making the world better I should just suck it up, feel good and persevere.”

      I don’t mind being told what to do either by the man. Take orders. As long as I get access to the social pie that enables me to do shit I enjoy, even if that be sitting and staring into the ether. But if work becomes this all encompassing beast, like a coop or any business can become, whether horizontal in structure or hierarchical, embedded in a market, without some notion that everyone is in fact working together to reduce for all, in the future, the amount of time the beast takes from people doing other stuff, stuff they may prefer, like drawing assholes in the dirt, then the movement’s not doing its job properly.

      If strategy is connected to some end vision, some better way to do shit, then I can see where the work is headed in the long run, but without that, coops often just seem or feel like starting any other kind of business, it’s just that it’s members all have an equal stake in it...but perhaps in the heads of its members some are less equal than others where real desires are concerned. It’s a better workplace environment and maybe the manager is taking home the same as the floor sweeper, but it’s still just work, 5,6, 7 days a week.

      The NSP and commonstransition and coop folk, to me, is all about work and NOT necessarily about new economies that eventually creates a better work/life ratio.

      More life please.

    • Boulder Dash 4th Feb 2019

      The above was to be under Dave’s post re humans are tough to figure.

    • Boulder Dash 4th Feb 2019

      I guess in some ways what I’m trying to say, and doing it badly, is Jason for instance, started a cleaning coop. Yes, it’s a coop, but I doubt whether he and the others really want to clean or be “cleaners”. Maybe they do, but I’d say maybe, Jas May/would prefer to play music, guitar, piano, compose...

      At moment, however, it’s making the coop work with all the similar shit Alex brought up along with all the actual shit they have to clean. It’s hard to motivate if the product or service of the business isn’t really a desirable one. I’ve cleaned and it’s fucked work. The coop is the focus. Making it viable. And that’s great and the subsequent learning is great...but it can be all encompassing at the expense of other equally as important conversations....

      Embedded in a market economy, unless the coop is producing something that fulfils one’s creative desires and goals, it’s probably just fucking work and just as onerous as working in a hierarchically capitalist firm.

      Much like ZNet. Three people running a publishing ‘business’, revolutionary internet site according to Parecon principles but it’s a full time, 7 day a week thing. For those three, maybe it fulfils (reading/publishing/writing),maybe not...not sure if a cleaning business or a laundry or anything really would do that for all.

      There has to be a goal to reduce the work week for all. To remunerate fairly and justly. To organise so some aren’t more empowered to involve themselves in decision making than others. There needs to be a better allocation system...eventually.

  • Alex of... 1st Feb 2019

  • Boulder Dash 1st Feb 2019


    Worker cooperatives are businesses that are owned and governed democratically by their workers, on a one-member, one-vote basis.

    Unlike a traditional business, in which ownership and control is separate from and often antagonistic to the workers who create value for the firm, a worker cooperative provides for both democratic ownership of the workplace, with each worker holding an equal interest in the business, and democratic governance, with each worker able to cast an equal vote in key decisions. A spectrum of management practices lays behind this basic institutional design. Many worker cooperatives, especially smaller ones, embrace more horizontal and directly democratic forms of self-management. Others, especially larger ones, use more traditional, hierarchical management structures that are embedded within systems of oversight that give workers the power to elect the company’s board and vote on the largest and most important business decisions.

    Potential Impact

    While worker cooperatives represent only a very small percentage of US businesses, the sector is growing and poised for a significant increase in scale. Only approximately 6,800 workers in the US are members of worker cooperatives—but there has been significant growth in the sector, which has doubled in size over the past decade. Small investments in worker cooperative development capacity have demonstrated a significant impact. For instance, a relatively small amount of funding from New York City—currently less than $4 million annually—has sparked an increase in the number of worker co-ops in the city from 12 when the effort started in 2014 to 80 by 2018. A major opportunity to scale the sector stems from the so-called “silver tsunami”—the impending retirement of millions of baby boomer business owners, many of whom lack a robust succession plan for their firms. Conversion to worker cooperatives offers a job-preserving pathway, incentivized by the same tax benefits available to ESOPs (employee stock ownership plans) but more appropriate for smaller businesses.

    Transformative Characteristics

    Worker cooperatives provide a clear and intuitive example of the democratic economy in action, and a building block of enterprise design that can be incorporated into higher-level structures. According to Esteban Kelly, executive director of the US Federation of Worker Cooperatives, “worker cooperatives may be the most coherent alternative to capitalism as we know it because they put capital at the service of labor rather than the other way around.” At the same time, worker cooperatives, because they are real businesses operating under real market and capital constraints, provide a valuable platform for educating and empowering their member-owners to play a larger role in the democratic management of the economy. Real world experiences—like the 70,000 worker Mondragon network in the Basque country, or the thousands of worker cooperatives clustered in Italy’s Emilia Romagna region, have also shown that significantly higher concentrations of democratic workplaces are possible with the proper support and incentive ecosystems. These cooperative economies have demonstrated the ability to provide stable, long-term opportunities for inclusive growth and to support high degrees of technical innovation.



    Founded in 1985, CHCA is the largest worker cooperative in the US, with over 2,000 employees. In a sector (home care) often characterized by exploitative and precarious working conditions, CHCA’s democratic ownership structure provides a powerful platform to protect and empower its workforce, largely composed of women of color.


    Founded in 2005, Namasté transitioned to a worker cooperative structure in 2011. Today, it employs 170 people and has installed more than 5,000 solar systems with a combined capacity of more than 75 megawatts—a significant share of total generation capacity in the state of Colorado. With a six-to-one pay ratio between highest- and lowest-paid employees, Namasté has consistently been recognized as a “best workplace.”


    Worker cooperatives can in some circumstances develop into narrowly profit-focused businesses at the expense of larger commitments to community and solidarity, a tendency amplified by a financial and technical support ecosystem that is underdeveloped compared to the one enjoyed by “normal” businesses. Scaling up access to mission-oriented sources of capital, developing more robust networks of mutual support, and implementing co-op-friendly public policies are all critical success factors for the continued growth of the worker cooperative sector that all lie largely outside the control or purview of individual worker cooperatives.

    More Resources

    The Democracy at Work Institute provides in-depth and cutting edge research on and for worker cooperatives.

    The ICA Group is a nonprofit worker cooperative development agency with over four decades of experience.

  • Boulder Dash 1st Feb 2019



    • Alex of... 3rd Feb 2019

      i'm familiar with that set of resources.. not that i've read every word of everything. mentioned before, there's lots available, just not some of the things i'd like to see.. which i can find for a lot of other things (not coops).

      in the https://institute.coop/startup section, there's only a couple more industry/model specific kind of docs:

      Tech Worker
      Home Care

      Equal Exchange has their Bylaws up. there's some short stories about a few specific businesses in the Tech Worker doc. all of this applies. need variety of models with good visual docs and video work.

    • Boulder Dash 3rd Feb 2019

      Thought so, just put it up because it just arrived in email....

  • Alex of... 2nd Feb 2019

  • Dave Jones 2nd Feb 2019

    In the end I prefer working for the man so I don't have all that capitalist stress ( loans, profit, creeping hierarchy, etc) but caveat, I have a pretty easy job untangling fishing line for rich people. They give me any shit they don't get un-knotted and don't catch any fish. But this way I can concentrate all my creative energy on revolution and still have food, shelter, guitar strings.

    • Alex of... 3rd Feb 2019

      there are things i'd prefer to leave to others that are more inclined, if in a cooperative arrangement. but, if coming up short, tasking needs fairness. has to be some agreements on that.. to avoid drama/stress over dirty dishes. learning to be a cooperator.. revolutionary.

      while i'm short on funds for some of my creative inclinations, there's plenty for me to prep right now. hell, there's plenty that could be outlined/pursued for IOPS, but seems short on willing staff.

  • Alex of... 3rd Feb 2019

    Survival and Barriers
    Collective action problems:

    Creating a new firm involves numerous activities
    that benefit the group as a whole but are
    carried out by individuals or subgroups.

    This gives rise to opportunities for free riding

  • Boulder Dash 3rd Feb 2019

    Remuneration doesn’t get talked about much. The article above re coops mentions a 6-1 pay disparity in Namasté, recognised as a best workplace. Why even 6-1? Why not 1-1?
    On what basis are people in coops being paid? I would guess those doing empowering work (head work) get paid more than those doing disempowering work (hands on less head work stuff). Like who decides that x gets 6 times more than y? Why 6? Where does that figure come from. How is the work shared...what is directly democratic and horizontal self-management, how is it achieved?

    It’s also interesting that Albert and Hahnel’s idea of an effort rating got criticised because it was like introducing some sort of spying mechanism into the workplace....pitting workers against each other. That stuff happens anyway, all the time. People notice. They know when people are not pulling their weight. They know who thought of what and whether certain groups or individuals are doing more or all. That’s what meetings are for.

    But remuneration for effort, even if one ignores the onerousness of some work, is a whole new ball game. It’s a different measure and can be done within a workplace now even while existing inside a market economy. But then eventually onerousness comes into play. Someone will mention it. Someone’s doing more manual shit, dirty shit and someone’s doing more creative cleaner shit. And empowering work vs dispowering work comes into play re decision making. It really does.

    That stuff’s in people’s heads now. Ideas about how much they as opposed to others deserve. Mostly informed by the existing economy and it’s mechanations, systems and structures. So getting remunerated for effort is different...a strange thing for most to wrap their heads around. Does the person who builds the stuff the engineer constructs get paid exactly the same because they worked equally hard? Does the engineer get paid exactly the same as the theoretical physicist who did no manual labour except for picking up a pencil and writing some script yet who thought up the shit that said it could be done? How do you measure the difference in effort? At some point you kinda just gotta say, fuck, x just doesn’t deserve more than y because both are putting in and I notice it.

    Remuneration and how one gets paid, how the surplus is divided up is so so important because that’s why people work...to get access to the social pie. Even if one starts a coop what are the chances that everyone has a creative stake in it or that the work they are doing is their calling (cleaning?)what they really love. Probably small if not tiny. So even if I worked in a picture framing coop, it wouldn’t be because I love doing it. It would be because is know how to do it but really I’m just there for the access to the social pie (pulling my societal weight because I can’t find a place in some music making coop) and a coop hopefully makes work better for all in most if not all areas. But how people get remunerated will determine a lot. Because in a full time coop, inside a market economy one still is probably putting in seven days a week, or six or five. Depends on the product/demand and lots of stuff. But that aspect of work, to lessen the hours doing it, so all people can at least have more time to enjoy life outside of work if the work they are doing isn’t their love, is so important if not the most. This also doen’t or rarely gets spoken about much.

    Sometimes building coops is like the be all an end all of it all. Like starting or being in a coop IS the place, where happiness is found (insert pictures of happy laundry coop workers who have steady work). People who are enterprising, focused, creative, even willing to do work that has nothing to do with one’s real desires, start coops as if that’s the goal alone. In fact, sometimes that’s how the Next System Project and the p2p/commons folk come across to me. Like it’s all about work and life is enjoyed and experienced through work, albeit organised differently, like a coop. I know that it’s early days and we exist inside a fucked system and a building good stuff inside bad stuff, but still...

    All these things can and should be discussed in parallel with the creation of coops and worker owned businesses.

    Not sure how well I’ve expressed my thoughts here. Probably badly. Probably incoherent. Maybe they’re off topic. Probably are. But they appeared mainly from reading Alex’s last post re free riders.

  • Irie Zen 5th Feb 2019

    WTF_OXNEWS? "America's goal is happiness, but leaders* show no obligation to voters" XD


  • Dave Jones 7th Feb 2019

    Many of the big tech companies have figured this out, made work less onerous and more cooperative feeling, lots of atmospherics. My son-in-law works for Google and it's all relaxed buffet lunches on bean bag chairs and skateboards. Young creatives made to feel their work/life has social meaning. And they are well paid. These corporations aren't stupid, they don't need a bunch of proles with pitchforks.

    • Alex of... 8th Feb 2019

      in the hunter-gatherer sense, work and life-meaning have a close bond.. your role in a tribe to survive and provide for each other as social animals. that sense of meaning or worth can get lost in the mass-production model, yes.. cog in the machine, even though we may benefit in other ways from the outputs.

      there's the old expression about being the best street sweeper you can be. there's truth in this, yet can also be a bit of a con-job, too.. as in, happy slave. with no ownership, your role is often pretty expendable. minus true-caste-structure, your task is then to climb the pyramid.. as in, make more money, be less expendable. generally speaking, everyone wants a sense of security and some room to play.

      tech-staff gets bean bags.. workers in the packaging warehouse, not so much. and, of course, there's also opportunity to define yourself and make a living outside of the standard workplace models.. arts, academics, fishing guide or whatev.

      no, not everyone has access to the same degree of opportunity as others, and some of what takes one up the pyramid does not apply to everyone's ability.

      but, i'm not really sure what is meant by "made to feel their work/life has social meaning."

      maybe you are arguing that those tech-jobs with a cooperative atmosphere are akin to Taylorism. you see that as a corporate ploy of sorts to maximize efficiency. but i think it comes a bit more from the fact that so much of the tech industry blossomed from young people who chose that atmosphere, and found it to be more enjoyable and productive.

      yes, these companies have people at the top reaping the most reward. yes, there's the non-tech staff at the bottom not getting jack shit to carve out a life with. but yes, those techies are doing pretty well financially and often enjoy their field. they aren't the proles, but the proles still exist.

      and no, i don't want to just do laundry, even as a worker/owner, but i have no problem with good-old fashioned work either. it can be very meaningful. it's preferable there's ownership, democracy, security, as well as opportunity beyond rote tasks.

      i'm not really here to tell anyone else what they consider to hold social or personal meaning. i just didn't quite understand the sentiment.

    • Boulder Dash 8th Feb 2019

      The simplicity folk talk about meaning all the time. So do most people when talking about change. Often people talk about meaningful work. Social meaning to me is probably just that community connection...happy at work doing x and contributing to the social pie. But that’s f course if you’re a nerd or gamer and you land some work a zgoogle you’re probably gonna be doing shit you enjoy.

      I have no problem with working either. Not sure what good old fashioned work is...blue collar...hard yakka...getting your hands dirty...digging a hole...but I can pay my way if society says I must, but markets and capitalism have to go, work has to be less hours, remuneration has to be fair and equitable, and basing it on sacrifice, onerousness and effort (hours) is a fair way to do it, and I thinks balancing for empowering work is a pretty good idea. And at most, 3.5 days of work a week for all.

      If balancing can’t be done for all, then I’m just picture framimg three days a week and no fucking more, because it’s fucking boring...good old fashioned work or not. I’ll spend the next four days sitting, chipping a scraper or a Clovis point, and drawing assholes in the sand.

    • Boulder Dash 8th Feb 2019

      But of course if you’re a nerd or gamer and you land some work a Google you’re probably gonna be doing shit you enjoy.

  • Alex of... 8th Feb 2019

    on a related note, i dated a dotcom millionaire many moons ago.

    her father was some sort of Italian diplomat, and she moved to DC to go to school. back in the early days of the internet, when it was partly being used for publishing academic shit, one of her professors asked if she would be willing to learn how to do that for him. she said there was only a few books on html at the time, so she learned some for that purpose. somewhere in all that she started dating some guy who was way more into it and had a few people on board, including a couple sports figures with investment money, for creating what became go2net. it was initially centered around sports info and grew. she happened to be in the right place at the right time and made millions. beyond html, she didn't really seem to know much about much else actually.

    it was bought out by infospace, which later imploded after she had cut ties anyways. but, i had met up with her a couple times at work.. infospace had an entire pier on the Seattle waterfront. and ya! they had beanbags! they had workspaces with wheels that could be rearranged. she got pretty good at ping-pong. but that was all shit they had been doing from the beginning, as people in their twenties who spent a lot of time at the workplace, embarking into unknown territory, and needed ways to mix shit up. makes sense.

    i found an article with some quotes by her from around that time. more online remnants of past lives! let's just say, her attitudes about money were a bit frustrating.


    ["Some people feel I should have a plan to affect humanity," she says. "I guess I'm just trying to stay normal and work on my life."

    "It's kind of alienating," Anfuso says. "Everyone thinks it's this huge beautiful thing that happens to you, but at first it makes you unhappy. It's easy sometimes to have guilty feelings."

    That's why Anfuso, who doesn't have to worry about mortgage payments or student loans or affording a new car, as many of her friends do, doesn't mind picking up a dinner check more often these days.

    But she and other millionaire Gen-Xers say they feel uncomfortable when they're approached because of the size of their checkbooks.]

    i actually didn't know any of this when we first started dating. but yes, she introduced me to sushi and took me out all the time cuz that's what she wanted to eat. i remember her saying, "i don't understand why everyone's so obsessed with money... money, money, money!"

    umm.. maybe cuz you've never had to struggle or work a job-job in your entire life? hey, it's one thing if you're talkin about millionaires wanting more millions or billions. but living paycheck to paycheck is a whole other fuckin ballgame. she talked about all the travel she had done, including her time with monks in Tibet where she didn't speak for some period of time. fuck, she kind of framed it like i was uncultured, and when i said i'd love to travel.. she said "well you should!" lol

    bubbles. last i've seen, she's into all kinds of new-age type shit. it looks to me like that thing where folks with money think they're getting enlightened at some beautiful retreat talking about non-duality and projecting astro-planes or whatever (Shirley Maclaine Out on a Limb anyone?). maybe that's all the real deal i'm missing. oh ya, Reiki, she was into that, too.

    she was looking for something, but she sure as shit didn't involve parting with the money she thinks is so stupid. still, she's a very warm person. i'm being critical, but it's not like she's nobody to me, or some soulless corporate type. i honestly consider talking to her sometime about investing in something unless she gave her money to a guru cult. perhaps she needs someone else to "have a plan to affect humanity."

    ha, she told me about eating Ramen noodles in college, as if she had to. slumming it.

    this sums a bit up lol...

    • Alex of... 8th Feb 2019

      Tully: You can really write. Why do you live like a bum?
      Henry: I am a bum. What do you want me to do? Do you want me to write about the sufferings of the upper classes?
      Tully: This may be news to you but they suffer too.
      Henry: Hey baby, nobody suffers like the poor.

    • Irie Zen 9th Feb 2019


      Yeahyaw izza wild ride.. powwowin' w/ the crew at the "Revolutionary Lemon-Aid Stand".. chillin', jammin', hustlin'.. -"IT'S ALIVE!"

      00 Frederick Taylor James Madison Noam Chomsky Edward Bernays Batman The Simpsons The f*cking 1% LeadRRRs The Oxford Oxen - FFFs because F.A.M. and FORM and FUNCTION @ IOPS in 2K19 I repeat myself when under stress Eugene Chadbourne I repeat myself when under stress Eugene Chadbourne John Zorn I repeat myself when under stress Derek Bailey I repeat myself when under stress Ned Collette Leonard Cohen Eugene Chadbourne Gareth Liddiard The Drones Shark Fin Blues Shark Fin Blues Shark Fin Blues John Stevens Suitcase Sessions Suitcase Sessions Suitcase Sessions Frank Zappa Eugene Chadbourne Dylan King Crimson DDDISCIPLINE Adrian Belew Talking Heads Bill Bruford the Intellectual - it’s just a joke name - Dark Web the Intellectual - it’s just a joke name - Dark Web the Intellectual - it’s just a joke name - Dark Web Midnight Oil Rogan Billy Gorgan Bruce Lee Anarchists Gar Alperovitz David Harvey Hannah Montana Tony Robbins Hannah Montana Bruce Lee NEWCLEUS - JAM ON IT Raspberry Jam Life’s being not dead Life’s being not dead Life’s being not dead Helmet Unsung Weird Al Yankovic Proof Kurt Kobain Jesus Jones Immortal Technique NOFX 1000 1000 RRR Homer Simpson Homer Simpson Isle of PlanSux Isle of PlanSux Speech Speech SpeechSpeech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Speech Eminem Gomer Pyle Green Day Immortal Technique Brother Ali President Schwarzenegger Nowhere to Run Get to the Chopper STOP THE INSANITY - SAFE PLACE SASSY Ready or not: Get in PPP_osition PPP_rotest CO OPERATE CO OPERATE CO OPERATE CO OPERATE QQQ-Quests Quests Quests OTL OTL OTL EODO KDOZER MVRK MF LEGACY YO TEES Pity Jason’s not hetero role how we role wu-tang clan ain't voltron to fuq wit BIZZY BIZ MARKIE AND BIZZY BEES AND BUSY BEES $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ SMASH SMASHY SMASHSMASH - SMASH SMASHY SMASHSMASH - SMASH SMASHY SMASHSMASHCA$H Tech9inez and Weapon of Mass Construction the thecrewvolutionary impewdence NSP coopcoopcoop ZNet Liz Hayes COOPS COOPS COOPS N COUPS WTFOX NOAMSANE DO1TY WO1KIN AT AAA ALPHABET Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogle Bum dates Dotcom Millionaire The originoo ALPHA COWBOY Captain KKKirk is a HAS BEEN - Bukowski is dead dead dead and the poe style do dis sufferin'. Now I want RAMEN.. MSG OVERKYLL*


      Turn the Page The Streets 

      That's it, turn the page on the day, walk away
      'Cause there's sense in what I say
      I'm forty-fifth generation Roman
      But I don't know 'em or care when I'm spitting
      So return to your sitting position and listen
      It's fitting, I'm miles ahead and they chase me
      Show your face on TV then we'll see, you can't do half
      My crew laughs at your rhubarb-and-custard verses
      You rain down curses but I'm waving your hearses driving by
      Streets riding high with the beats in the sky
      All stare, eyes glazed, garage burnt down
      The fire raged for forty days and in forty ways
      But through the blaze they see it fade
      The sea of black, the beaming heat on their faces
      Then a figure emerges from the wastage
      Eyes transfixed with a piercing gaze
      One hand clutching his sword raised to the sky
      They wonder how, they wonder why
      The sky turns white, it all becomes clear
      They felt lifted from their fears
      They shed tears, in the light after six dark years
      Young bold soldiers, the fire burns, crackles and smolders
      Five years older and wiser
      The fires are burning, on fire, never tire
      Slay warriors in the forests, and on higher we sing
      Hear the strings rising, the war's over, the bells ring
      Memories fading, soldiers slaying, looks like geezers raving
      The hazy fog over the bullring, the lazy ways the birds sing
      A new baby's born everyday, few men may be scorned today
      But look at things the other way cause it may well be your final day
      And then crowds roar, they slay, they all say
      I produced this using only my bare wit
      Give me a jungle, a garage beat, and admit defeat
      Use war and past injuries, my metaphor is simile
      Get all applications in to me before the deadline
      'Cause it's a fine line between strife full time and a life of crime
      But you will reach the day
      And it's all mine, you can take it or leave it
      I shake and reveal stage tricks like Jimi Hendrix
      In the afterlife gladiators meet their maker
      Float through the wheat fields and lakes of blue water
      To the next life from the fortress
      Away from the knives and slaughter, to their wives and daughters
      Once more before the Lord judges over all of us
      It's in the is place you'll see me
      Brace yourself cause this goes deep
      I'll show you the secrets to sky and the birds
      Actions speak louder than words
      Stand by me, my apprentice
      Be brave, clench fists